Comment I published on: http://2hold.wordpress.com/2012/03/23/equal-is-not-the-same/#comments


I came across your blog from a comment you posted on an article entitled "The Universal Enslavement of Women'.
I clicked on your icon and it brought me here and this article struck my eye.
I will use the title of 'complemenentarian' to describe myself but as I read your article, I can
relate - and I agree - with much of what you say!
Titles can be so limiting can't they?

I have read nothing of your testimony but I appreciate the way you approached the issue of equality in this article (I haven't read any of your other posts yet.)
One question I have, which you may have already addressed somewhere else on your blog, is why do people feel like women don't have a 'voice' in the body when Paul specifically talks about women prophesying?

I'm not a 'greek' student or some indepth scholar on these things but when I think of prophesy, I think of a very important function in the Body. Paul says we are even to 'desire' to prophesy. The only restriction he puts on women 'foretelling and forthtelling' the things of God is that they are to be 'covered' -right? (and understanding that this goes beyond some 'physical' manifestation of wearing a hat/scarf/shawl). I think some of the confusion may arise because of how we currently function as a 'body' in our current institutional, traditional settings.

Having one man stand up front in an auditorium setting or classroom setting automatically sets everyone else up as an audience of silent spectators with no input unless this tendency is intentionally fought against.

If we assemble together the way Paul seems to describe in Corinthians with each one having a
" psalm, hath a doctrine, hath a tongue, hath a revelation, hath an interpretation" (1 Cor 14:26, KJV), then both men AND (coverd) women (whatever a person's understanding of 'covered' may be) would be flowing in the Spirit and functioning equally.

So it would seem, at least in our fellowships, it is more a matter of how WE as people, people who 'see through a glass darkly'  who still battle with our flesh, have set up a structure of assembling and fulfilling our callings in the body have have done a disservice to ourselves, both men and women.

As far as equality in the home,  someone in the comments of the article that brought me to your site, made a very astute statement.

Something to the effect of women who have husbands who act in a domineering, authoritarian manner towards their wives are giving the wives an opportunity to extend grace to them and allow them room to come to a greater understanding of the Father's will (their 'meek and quiet conversation').  (or some statement like that, lol) I thought this was good!

We ourselves haven't always believed what we do and how gracious of the Lord to still bless us until the 'time of OUR visitation' when our eyes are opened. That's REALLY submission if a wife can 'lay down her life' and wait for her husband to 'catch up'. Being a daughter of Sara sometimes means submitting to things we have different (and wiser!) understandings of and doing it without fear,  The way Sara said she was a 'sister' even though she probably thought, "Abraham, you spineless  dummy this is going to end up being a problem" and of course it did. But, without fear (and without murmuring I believe)  she did, as we must do, submit herself to the Lord through submission to her husband, her example now being displayed to us as one to emulate. .  

Well, this is getting long so I'll stop here, lol. I have much to learn/understand about the mind of Christ still so I hope I am not speaking offensively to you or any of your readers - I just sincerely want to be pleasing to the Father like everyone else.  

Womne's equality in the Body

http://jamaljivanjee.com/2011/09/the-universal-enslavement-of-women/ There were GREAT comments on this article that supports mutual equality in the body. Of particular interest to me were the comments by Trevor Honeycutt and Jeremiah Christian. Trevor Honeycutt did a particular good job in presenting what Jerry Feldman called "over realized eschatology". We want all the fullness and expression of our positions in Christ manifested NOW, without considerations that we still have our Spiritual Treasure wrapped in vessels of clay! Complete healing NOW, ruling as kings NOW, the riches of this earth NOW! Unfortunately, however, there is no getting past this sinful flesh that we will be battling until we draw our last breath. Mutual submission, Yes! But there are still functional roles that being a man and a woman entail. Being found in the form of a (wo)man I don't count it robbery to be equal with my husband, but because I find myself in this vessel of flesh, I die to how "I" think I want to live and allow my husband to rule as 'head' in our marriage relationship. Trevor states it really good though so I won't say any more, lol! Margaret, Jessica and Dave McCarthy also had good comments

The Great Commission?

I've had a sneaking suspicion that the Body's attempts at fulfilling the Great Commission has turned into more of a 'work of the flesh' than a true expression of the river of life flowing from us. Seems others think so as well. Here is an excerpt from a blog post at SearchingTogether:

Would the eternal purpose of God in Christ to secure and maintain a Bride for the Son – a purpose in which the Lord works everything out according to the counsel of his will – be left in the hands of frail human beings and adverse circumstances (Ephesians 1:11; 3:11)? Absolutely not! If Father intends to reveal Christ to a person, he will oversee all of the circumstances. If someone fails to speak when they should, or if a car breaks down in the middle of the road – the Lord will find other means to accomplish his plans.

Our life is not about “making disciples,” “multiplying churches,” or “completing the Great Commission in our generation.” Our life is Christ. The Lord’s word to us is – as branches are organically joined to the vine, so “abide/remain in me and you will bear fruit.” To lift up any goals, or means to such goals, is a sure snare. Of course, Paul traveled around and endured many hardships for the Gospel’s sake. But his passion in life was not to be a “soul-winner,” to see a church planted in every city, or to envision millions of house churches covering the earth. He summed up his life’s passion with clarity: “for me to live is Christ . . . . the love of Christ compels me . . . . that I might know him and the fellowship of his sufferings.”

If Jesus is the Alpha and Omega – the A to Z – then what else is there to pursue? Can we be satisfied with Jesus Christ, or must we descend to programs and/or strategies to “win the world”? — Jon Zens, December, 2011

The law written on our hearts

From Joseph Herrin's book, Laying Down the Law, and the chapter, 'The Purpose of the Law':

[Quote]:
Those who yearn to walk in obedience to God need no law to keep them in line, and those who do not want to walk in obedience will not be made obedient through law. Those who insist that the letter of the Law must be kept are deceiving themselves. Obedience that is acceptable unto God flows from the heart of a man that has been inwardly transformed. It is not arrived at through outward constraint and force of law.[End Quote]

So true.

The Bible Almanac

The entire reference work of The Bible Almanac has been uploaded to this site in PDF format.
All the names and all the places of the bible are listed with a brief summary of who/where they are.

Saved by Childbearing - 1 Timothy 2:15

"Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety."


This confusing passage is easier to understand when you take the rest of Paul's council into thought as well as see how the greek word for 'save' - soza - is used in other places in the scripture.

A great study that I have found on this scripture is from The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood.

https://www.cbmw.org/Journal/Vol-2-No-4/Saved-Through-Childbearing

In my own paraphrase, 1 Tim 2:15 says:

'But you shall be delivered from the wiles of the evil one and made safe if you walk in your God given assignment and domain as a 'child bearer' which includes the complete scope of home/domestic management.'

Some choice quotes from the aforementioned website are:

"What does it mean, then, for a woman to be "kept safe [from Satan]"? It means, among other things, that she will not yield in her mind to false notions of what it means for her to be a woman and in particular a woman of God. It means that she will respect divinely set boundaries in the exercise of her spiritual gifts and ministry calling in trust and obedience to God's Word. It means that she will find fulfillment in her domestic calling, in her relationship with her husband, in her role as mother and maker of the home, and in proper ministry involvements in God's "household," the church"

"The above presented interpretation of 1 Timothy 2:15 also strongly affirms a complementarian understanding of biblical manhood and womanhood. Women, like men, were assigned by their Creator certain roles, and it is part of "working out our salvation" (Phil. 2:12) to adhere to these roles in our Christian lives and ministry. Salvation in Christ does not obliterate these role distinctions, as egalitarians claim-it rather aids believers in living once again within the parameters originally established by the Creator, as creatures saved from the curse of sin and restored to God's original design for men and women."



The below video discusses the same topic from the same perspective as Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood. 21:58 minutes long

One thing that I particularly liked is how she summarized (starting at about 19 minutes)that the same sinfulness that allowed Eve to be deceived, is the same sinfulness that works in a woman's flesh today: we have a tendency to be deceived and then we use our influence on our husbands to bring them along into the deception; that sinful nature tendency is in us whether we want to acknowledge it or not!



Update 5/26/12:
I was also thinking today (5/26/12)about Saul. His position was NOT as priest, only king. Yes, this is an 'Old Testament' example but just as Saul and Samuel were 'playing out' a greater spiritual truth, so too does the 'man and woman' play out a greater spiritual truth as well of 'Christ and his bride, the Church'.  The 'bleating of the sheep' that is heard from the the pulpits manned by woman pastors and woman whose ministries are established on teaching men as well as women, are showing the same disregard for their positions as Saul showed.